>From: Trail39@aol.com
>To: pct-l@backcountry.net
>Subject: [pct-l] 9  pound  pack
>Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2000 14:24:03 EDT
>
>wow  thats  sounds  great  TELL  ME  HOW PLEASE
>Marty
Ultralite Hennessy Hammock, Home made down quilt,Thermo-lite space blanket 
bivy, Seychelle gravity feed water filter set up, Trangia stove w/home made 
stand, Ti pot, Zyphur jacket, home made pack, Platy hydration rig. Mostly 
summer alpine rig. I can go lighter in low land summer. Winter is, of 
course, heavier.
Jerry

Cancer fighter, climber dies in Ketchum

Laura Steele Evans, a breast cancer survivor who helped lead 16 other women
who fought the disease in a trek up the highest peak in the Western
hemisphere -- Argentina's Mount Aconcagua -- died Tuesday at her home in
Ketchum. Evans' bout with breast cancer motivated her to form an unusual
organization called Expedition Inspiration, which since 1995 has raised more
than $2 million for breast cancer research and awareness programs through
mountain treks and hikes.
http://www.idahostatesman.com/news/daily/20001020/LocalNews/46626.shtml

re: I'm planning on a through hike in 2001 and don't want to be
disqualified!
Where are these jewels?  For that matter, any info sources out there for hot

springs along/near the pct?  Thanks...Doug.

Required Hot Springs:
1-After climbing Mt. Whitney you descend and go north past Crabtree Meadows
and continue to the junction with the High Sierra Trail. Turn left and
proceed about 12 miles to Kern Hot Springs. The spring is along the Kern.
Adjust the temperature by scooping cold water from the Kern into the
concrete tub. The campsite has a pit toilet....if you remember how a toilet
works. Note: The fording of Wallace, Wight and Whitney Creeks along the HST
are good training for Evolution Creek.

2-After leaving VVR you climb over the Silver Divide and head towards Tully
Hole. The easiest way is to take the Cascade Valley Trail along Fish Creek
about 8 miles to Iva Bell Hot Springs. The lower Springs are both awesome
but the upper springs have an awesome sunset down the valley. The
temperature of the upper spring is adjusted with a rock that redirects the
flow from the uppermost very hot spring. From the springs continue on the
trail to rejunction on the PCT at Red's Meadow.

Not Required Hot Springs:
3-Muir Trail Ranch has awesome hot springs but the public hot springs are
ugly. North of the  bridge crossing the San Joaquine take the spur trail to
Florence Lake. The public springs require a nasty crossing of the San
Joaquine just before the lateral to Muir Trail Ranch.

4-Mono Hot Springs. Take the Bear Creek Lateral to Mono Hot Springs Resort.
Purchase a six pack [required if the store is open] and cross the creek to
the public hot springs

* From the PCT-L |  Need help? http://www.backcountry.net/faq.html  *

Speaking of Hot Springs, I just dipped into one today just off the *old*
PCT. From Snoqualmie Pass, I hike up to Red Pass on the old "hiker" PCT
route (formerly known as the Cascade Crest Trail). North of Red Pass the
trail has been abandoned but some of us renegade maintainers have lopped
about 1/2 the route to Goldmyer. The last half is flagged and not too hard
to follow, but brushy and has lots of blowdowns. 27 years has not been
kind to the trail. THen I dipped into the Goldmyer Hotsprings (100F) and
hiked up the old "horse" PCT route past Snow Lake and Source Lake. What a
day! I'll bed Mad Monte missed this too since he hiked it in 1977, after
the Kendall Katwalk was blasted out of the rock

<< Speaking of Hot Springs, ...>>

No one has mentioned the first hot spring on the northbound trail from Campo 
...  the one along Deep Creek (between Arrowhead and Mojave Forks Reservoir). 
Easy to get to ... just 20 feet off the trail. 

If you like hot springs, you can't beat this one for convenience. As I 
recall, there is no camping by the hot springs, but camping spots are hard to 
come by all along Deep Creek.

There's one more thing ... don't ingest the water. See the warning in the PCT 
Guide.

Charlie

At 04:17 PM 10/25/00 , Carl Siechert wrote:
>It's not the USFS' version of what the trail is, but you might find
>interesting

Actually I have read it, and basically it hands control of the PCT over to 
the USFS, while the NPS got the AT.

That is why the USFS document is so important.

Thanks for the search tip, but http://FirstGov.gov came up null too (along 
with http://www.fs.fed.us/, http://www.gpo.gov, and http://www.usda.gov/ )

I think socks are awfully overrated.  I've hiked the last two years on the PCT (Campo to Crater 
Lake) using nylon liner socks bought at Wally-World for $3 for 3 pair.  I get about 300 miles out of 
each pair.  I'd rather spend my money on good trail runner shoes, and Spenco foodbeds.

Rainmaker
rainmaker@rabun.net

Howdy listers,
My local paper "The Desert Sun" had a short article on a hike of a
section of the PCT in the San Gorgonio pass.  The writer is kind of a
dufus but it's okay.
http://www.thedesertsun.com/news/stories/sports/972625339.shtml
      Jeff Jones

Not PCT, but a subject close to some
=================

  Defiant rancher once more loses grazing case, may now go to jail

  By Scott Sonner 
  ASSOCIATED PRESS 

  November 18, 2000 

  RENO -- A Nevada rancher who challenged federal authority over the national forests was found 
guilty yesterday of illegally grazing his cattle on government land, and prosecutors said they'll 
ask that he be sent to jail.

  Ruby Valley rancher Cliff Gardner has battled the government for six years, defying orders to 
remove his livestock from a national forest even after losing an appeal to the 9th Circuit Court of 
Appeals.

  U.S. District Judge Howard McKibben in Reno found Gardner guilty yesterday of two counts of 
failure to remove unauthorized livestock from the national forest system, each punishable by up to six 
months in jail and a $5,000 fine.

  The Justice Department sought the criminal misdemeanor charges after federal agents allegedly 
caught Gardner's cattle on the Humboldt-Toiyabe National Forest near Elko, Nev., again this past 
April and July.

  The Forest Service revoked Gardner's grazing permit in 1994 for violation of the terms and 
conditions outlining allowed uses of the national forest lands adjacent to his Ruby Valley ranch.

  The Justice Department won an injunction in U.S. District Court a year later to keep Gardner's 
cattle out of the national forest.

  Yet Gardner refused to recognize the Forest Service's control of the land and challenged federal 
ownership in an appeal to the circuit court in San Francisco.

  The 9th Circuit reaffirmed the government ownership of the land in 1996, said federal officials.

  Copyright 2000 Union-Tribune Publishing Co. 
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/sat/news/news_1n18rancher.html

PCTHiker.com is offering free online journal space to PCT hikers who plan to
hike at least 1,000 miles of the PCT this coming 2001 hiking season. The
journal spaces are completely secure and are accessible anywhere there is
internet access. You can add, edit and delete journals entries and even
upload photos. A map will also be updated as you progress on your hike.
Readers will be able to follow your journey and even post comments and
encouragements about your entries.

If you are interested in having your own personal online PCT journal, click
(link:http://www.pcthiker.com/pages/journalform.html) here to apply.

We've added a new section to the PCTA website called Dreams. For all of you
who like beautiful photos of the PCT, this is the place for you!

Each week we'll add in a new beautiful photo taken on the PCT by a
professional photographer. You'll be able to download the photos to your
computer in different sizes to serve as wallpaper. 

So if you're tired of looking at that old tired computer background or need
a little inspiration for your next PCT journey, drop on in. Just click the
photo in the Dreams box on the opening page.

Ron Moak
---------------------------------------------------------------
PCTA Web Master - http://www.pcta.org

 

Roy, that was quite a beautiful and eloquent description of the trail 
between Kennedy Mdws. and Mt. Whitney.  Like many PCT hikers, I walked this 
section after 700 miles of S. California, and that context certainly colored 
my perception of that part of the trail.  By the time I reached Kennedy 
Mdws., I was so excited about getting to/being in the high sierra that I 
experienced the section of trail immediately north as marvelous and 
breathtaking, although in retrospect it wasn't quite as scenically awesome 
as the John Muir Trail further north.  I, too, remember that moment of 
coming over the west shoulder of Olancha peak and seeing the snow-covered 
high country spread out before me, so close after walking so far to get to 
it, as one of the most joyous of the entire trip.   I also highly recommend 
making the side trip to the summit of Olancha Peak.  It's the first time on 
the trip that you pass so close to a climbable 12,000 foot peak, and it's a 
really fun climb with a dramatic steep drop-off along the eastern escarpment 
once you reach the peak.

>>By the time I reached Kennedy
Mdws., I was so excited about getting to/being in the high sierra that I
experienced the section of trail immediately north as marvelous and
breathtaking, although in retrospect it wasn't quite as scenically awesome
as the John Muir Trail further north.  <<

Yeah, in retrospect this stretch is basically a giant foxtail pine
plantation, a subalpine desert, what the Mojave looks like when you push it
up an extra 5000 feet into the sky. Yet this sandy, piney precursor to the
true Sierra nonetheless offers a number of true Sierran trappings:
sun-cupped snow, hungry mosquitoes, fiesty Clark's Nutcrackers, and meadows
so green and flat as to evoke images of beautifully manicured golf courses,
yours and yours alone.

All things considered, though, this stretch of trail is a wonderful lesson
in geological and biological transition: it isn't quite Evolution Basin, but
it's still a far cry from Tehachapi. And the foxtails are a wonder to
behold.

- blisterfree

This is for the "For What It's Worth Category"

For anyone who's interested, I've posted the latest handout of Bear
regulations, etc. issued from the Sequoia / Kings Canyon NP. As usual, it's
not dated, but Bob Ballou at the PCTA says he received it on 11/8/00.

You can find it in the Forums section on the PCTA website under Trip
Planning : Animals : Bears 

Public Apologies to Amigo and Sunrise

Looks like my Sunday mornings hack at the PCT 2000 hiker list wasn't as
thorough as possible. Some people were missed and others were incorrect. I'd
be glad to send the whole caboodle off to anyone interested in revising it. 


Ron "Fallingwater" Moak
--------------------------------------------------------
PCT 2000 - http://www.fallingwater.com/pct2000

Gail,
We used both the data book and the town guide, as well as the PCT 
guidebooks.  You have to have the guidebooks, as they have the maps, and you 
will need those, especially when snow covers the trail. If not, you still 
need them to know where water is infrequent (about 2/3 of the trail!)

One problem with the guidebooks (there are MANY problems with the 
guidebooks, but that's another discussion) is that it tells you that it is 
.6 from the last point, or 3.7 miles, but there is no cumulative daily 
total.  It makes it more difficult to plan the day.  With the data book, you 
can tell at a glance that it is 25 miles to the next water source, you don't 
have to add up all the interim points. We hiked with sections of each of the 
three books, not the whole book.  Another option, if you have the time, is 
to buy the data book and note the cumulative numbers in the margin of the 
guidebook, then leave the data book at home.

The town guide has many errors, but was still useful for knowing where we 
would find showers and laundromats, for example.

Ginny

All right, I will join the crowd in confessing.  We hike a Sierra Nevada
section of some 300 miles every August, and we quit filtering our water
in 97.  Since we hike with llamas we can tank up a water supply of 10
liters once a day and carry it all day.  So we find the best possible
water source, fill up and travel on.  We fussed with water filters for
35 days in 96 (while backpacking) and got heartily sick of them.  We
realized that we had been hiking for some 15 years before water filters
were invented, following some basic principles for finding safe drinking
water, and had never gotten sick during those years (1970-1985).  We
considered the possibility that the risk of giardia is somewhat
overstated in order to sell water filters, and decided to return to the
practices we followed in those days of yore.  We took some encouragement
from Jardine's book in trying this course.  The upshot is that we have
not yet been sick.  We figure that we are either immune to symptoms or
we're going to be.  We theorize that any local water supply has its
population of bugs which the local inhabitants adjust to.  If you travel
somewhere else, beware.  We think we have spent enough time in the
Sierra Nevada high country in recent years to gain immunity.  We have
spoken to several horse packers who spend every summer of their lives in
the backcountry, never filter water, and scoff at the very notion of
doing so.
Marion Davison

* From the PCT-L |  Need help? http://www.backcountry.net/faq.html  

For an article on the fire and trail rehabilitation, check www.pcta.org.
Read the article on the Manter Burn on the front page.

Ron
---------------------------------------------
Ron "Fallingwater" Moak 
www.fallingwater.com/pct2000

 -----Original Message-----
From: 	d111@mail.jps.net [mailto:d111@mail.jps.net] 
Sent:	Wednesday, December 13, 2000 10:15 AM
To:	pct-l-digest@backcountry.net
Subject:	[pct-l] re:  Kennedy Meadows Store

     Yes Monte, the Kennedy Meadows Store is alive and well.  I talked to
someone there on the phone around the first of October.  I believe the main
burn areas were both south east and west of the store.  My guess at that
time, from looking at the maps, was that around 12 miles of PCT in the
Chimney Creek area were directly affected.  Has any actually been there
this fall???

Dave (WalkOn)


* From the PCT-L |  Need help? http://www.backcountry.net/faq.html  *
* From the PCT-L |  Need help? http://www.backcountry.net/faq.html  *

Listening to Jim and Ginny's discussion on the PCT, I was beginning to
wonder if we'd hike the same trail last summer.

As Jim said the PCT isn't the AT and visa a versa. An apple and an orange
may both be fruit, round and  grow on trees, but they are not the same. Like
the fruit, some people prefer apples and others prefer the oranges.

Personally I prefer the PCT. I do enjoy a trail bed that doesn't make me
spend the entire day wondering if I'm about to break an ankle. One that
allows me to enjoy the view laid out before me. And views there are. There
are more views in a day on the PCT than in two weeks on the AT. 

I don't know how many mountains I climbed on the AT only to get to the top
to see a view no larger than the picture window in my living room, if there
was a view to be had. Except for a few places, gone are the sweeping views
from southern balds. They've grown over considerably in the 20 some years
since we first did the AT. And if you expect to have a 360 degree view on
the AT, you're most likely to get it at the top of a fire tower.

The Whites do offer some decent view. But nothing one could really call
spectacular. They hardly have anything to take your breath away like the
Sierra Mountains. After all how much time did Ansel Adams spend
photographing the Whites? 

Even you do enjoy the views in the Whites, it's damn hard to do so while
hiking. If you're not spending every ounce of energy concentrating where
your next foot or hand hold is, you'll be eating a lot of granite. 

On top of all that, if you stop for awhile to enjoy the view, you'll get
trampled on by a few hundred other soles who what to share your perch.  Or
you can climb to the top of Mt. Washington and suck on the coal smoke
belching out of the train. 

Ginny's right the about the stronger sense of community on the AT than the
PCT. But that's changing. I doubt if the PCT will ever get the kind of
starts the AT does. But who knows.  More people started and finished the PCT
this year than started and finished the AT the year I did it. We didn't have
a sense of community much back then. You could  easily go a couple of months
without seeing another thru-hiker, on the trail or in towns.

In some way's though the AT maybe in the process of loosing some of its
sense of community as it becomes more popular.  In any case the AT will
always be a more social trail. It's constant crisscrossing of roads and
shelters, tends to force people together. 

The AT no longer provides that sense of being away from roads and people.
The two longest roadless stretches of the AT are now the Southern and
Northern sections of the Smokies. About 30 miles each. For the rest of the
trail, you'll have a hard time going over 10 miles without crossing a road.
The once beautiful and isolated Maine wilderness has long been trashed.

On the PCT you can still travel over 200 hundred miles without crossing a
road. 

Again I'm don't claim one trail is better than the other. As with all things
beauty is in the eye of the beholder. 

Ron
---------------------------------------------
Ron "Fallingwater" Moak 
www.fallingwater.com/pct2000

A little late – but I couldn’t resist attempting to answer --

Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2000 02:07:26 EST From: CitrusHicker@aol.com Subject: 
[pct-l] Biggest Difference between AT Thru-Hike I'm looking for some wisdom 
on what the biggest differences are between an AT Thru-hike and a PCT 
Thru-hike from some experienced hikers.

1   Is the "community" that much smaller?, I know there's fewer PCT hikers 
but since the weather window is so much smaller it would seem everybody 
would still be pretty concentrated.

Yes, the community is smaller.  There is a big difference between 3000 
starters and 300.  The  time window is small, but people still spread out 
from mid-April to mid-May.  You will meet a fair number of other thruhikers 
though, if you start out during that time frame, and especially if you 
attend the ADZPCTKO and start out with the 50 or so who will begin the trail 
that weekend.  Past the Sierras, the group thins out a lot, but we still met 
a couple of thruhikers every week (for a total of about 65 long distance 
hikers over 5 months), and lots of shorter term hikers and backpackers 
(usually 5-10 a day.)  The main difference is that there isn’t the 
shelter/designated campsite system that you have on the AT which 
concentrates use so much.  You mostly meet the other thruhikers in town, but 
once you leave town, people camp all over (and rarely at water sources) so 
you may travel within a few miles of other hikers at much the same speed, 
but never see them.  Except for the Sierras, where people tend to clump 
together for safety, the only people we hiked with for more than a day on 
the PCT were people we knew before we went out there, former AT hikers. 
Everyone has their own sense of how fast a hike they want or are capable of 
doing, and hikers tend to be more consistent on the PCT than on the AT – 
there were fewer jackrabbit hikers, so we had less leapfrogging on the PCT.  
The people we passed, we rarely saw again and those who passed us were never 
seen again.  It makes it much harder to have a sense of community when you 
only meet someone for a few hours in town, and then never see them again.  
In the early days, when we met the most people, there was also the question 
– how long will these people last?  A lot of those we met in the first few 
weeks never intended to go all the way.  Many were gone by Big Bear.  Those 
we met later on were generally speed hikers who zipped past without even a 
hello, unless we met in town.  In Oregon  and northern California, many of 
the places we had maildrops aren’t really towns, just resorts where hikers 
generally pick up their mail and move on, so we didn’t even have that much 
contact.  It was always fun when we did get to meet other hikers, but it was 
also disappointing that the contact was so brief.

2. Bears are much more agressive in the west?
We had a bear eat our hung food in New Hampshire, but had no problems on the 
PCT.  We were too early in the season in the Sierras and the bears we saw up 
north weren’t park bears, so they didn’t bother us.  We saw more wildlife, 
including bears, on the AT.

3. : Is everybody really focused on their schedule? On the AT I didn't pay 
much attention because I allowed myself 7 months. Obviously the PCT requires 
a faster schedule.

On the PCT, there was always the perception that we had to hurry because 
winter was coming, SOON.  (In fact, we got snowed on three times in 
Washington, and we finished fairly early - Sept 22.)  On the AT, when I 
finished I figured I had at least 3 weeks, if not more, before winter was a 
serious possibility.  (We finished Sept. 23.)  Partly because the window of 
time is small, and partly because of the Jardine influence (faster is 
better), partly because the trail is so easy, most of the people we met on 
the PCT who finished in one year were really pushing the miles.  On the AT, 
you can average 11 or 12 miles a day and still finish easily.  On the PCT, 
we had to average 19 miles a day to finish.  It makes a difference.  Some 
hikers decide they don’t like the push for miles and change the plan to do a 
partial hike at 15 miles a day; others just grin (or grimace) and bear it.  
It wasn’t that difficult to do the miles--the terrain is generally pretty 
easy and the trail well graded (except in some parts of Washington)--but it 
meant there was always the pressure to hike more.  The other hikers seemed 
much more driven than we were.  We took time off and deliberately did short 
days because we wanted to extend the hike and to enjoy it more, but a lot of 
hikers ended up finishing earlier than they planned because they couldn’t 
slow down once they got into the habit of pushing for miles.

Other differences – water is a constant preoccupation for much of the trail. 
  The long 20-30 mile waterless stretches meant we HAD to do long days to 
get to water or to set up the stretch for the next dry part.

4.  Generally speaking, a PCT thruhike is a very different experience from 
an AT hike.  For me, the AT was a lot more fun, though that isn’t quite the 
right word for it The AT was more satisfying in a lot of ways.  Of course, 
it was also my first long hike, which makes a real difference, I think.  On 
the PCT, I sometimes felt like the trail was an endurance test, not 
something to be enjoyed.  On the AT, that was never an issue.  There was a 
question of whether I COULD finish the AT, but never whether I wanted to.  
On the PCT, I often asked myself why I was bothering.  For me, the PCT felt 
more monotonous than the AT.  The push for miles was part of that, 
especially in the dry stretches.  The views were often more open, (though 
the PCT has its share of long green tunnel too and smog was a constant) and 
there was a lot of beautiful country, but to me it seemed as if there were 
fewer rewards along the way.  You almost never climb the peaks you’re 
passing, see the good waterfalls, etc. unless you make a side trip or do an 
alternate route off trail.  Instead the trail contours endlessly around and 
around through thick brush or dense trees.  I really missed the sense of 
accomplishment I had on the AT when we reached the top of the mountain, 
especially the hard ones.  The passes in the Sierras and in Washington were 
the only places I really had that sense of accomplishment – that and finally 
crossing the California Oregon border after three months on the trail.  That 
is one reason, I think, some of the hikers do the big miles.  They use 
“hiked 30 miles” to give the kind of sense of accomplishment you get from 
reaching the top of the mountain.  Of course, many of the hikers just slowed 
down and did the off trail climbs and side trips anyway, despite the extra 
miles.  We did several  -- and were glad we did.

I love the western mountains and the experience was worth doing, but it was 
different from what we expected/hoped after our AT and CDT adventures.  But 
then, long hikes are ALWAYS different from what you expect, one way or 
another.

Ginny O

I thought the Ursack, http://www.ursack.com/ , was having some serious difficulties this past bear season. The failed when
assaulted by bears, not necessarily park bears, more readily than had first been expected.

I'm considering a JMT through hike for next year and I'd love to use an Ursack instead of a bear
canister to save a couple of pounds, but am concerned with bears. Is the Ursack up to the 
challenge now? By the way, I'd NOT have dinner where I would camp. I'd eat and then move down the trail at
least a mile  or so before calling it a night.

  ** Ken **
  
On 12/21/00 at 9:08 AM, Reynolds, WT <reynolds@ilan.com> wrote:

> In areas other than those requiring special care I would invest in a URSACK.

**  Kenneth Knight    Web Design, IT Consultant, Software Engineer  **
**       krk@speakeasy.org        http://www.speakeasy.org/~krk     **
* From the PCT-L |  Need help? http://www.backcountry.net/faq.html  *

I would use a bear canister on a JMT hike. The URSACK probably won't work in
"garbage bear" territory. The bears must scare off. Garbage bears don't.
Most thruhikers junction with the JMT [Crabtree Meadow} around June 15-20
and are in Tuolumne before July 1. Bears are a lot less active that early.
By mid-July you are likely to have a bear encounter on the JMT. 

My bear canister weighs 1 pound 13 ounces vs 5 ounces for a URSACK. For a
pound and a half weight savings I don't think the risk of losing your food
is worth it.

Tom 

On both of our JMT hikes ('98 and"99) Marcia carried a Garcia canister in a frameless back pack so 
the canister provided some shape and rigidity. We propped it in rocks at night, or in a basin 
area. One night it was slimed by a (bear?)nose. Another evening a bear at Cathedral Lakes approached 
it, made a u-turn and visited another camp. We heard the pot and lid banging to scare off the bear.

Ray Jardine can stop reading now, but I also carried it on our PCT through hike. I probably 
wouldn't do that again, but I do think it save our food from ants, mice and marmots, too. And we were 
legal in SEKI without realizing that we were supposed to carry it. 

I'm really curious about the lighter carbon fiber canisters. Does anyone have any experience with 
them?

Regards
Marcia

At 06:48 PM 1/4/01 , you wrote:
>are you aware of any way to compare the data on this site to an average 
>year in order to plan a pct start date?

Full records since 1943 are available, but you have to look up the snow 
course number.

For example, Tyndall Creek is available at
http://cdec.water.ca.gov/snow/historical/courses/course_255

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/cgi-progs/snowQuery will give you more data than 
you can possibly use


>since the data given is in water equivalent inches, what does this mean in 
>terms of snow level?

http://cdec.water.ca.gov/snow/misc/density.html
Tells us how many average inches of snow for each inch of water-equivalent 
for each month. The later in the season, the more dense the snow. For late 
season it is about 2:1.

>isn't one inch of rain equivalent to a foot of fresh fallen snow?

the same page says that in California, the density of new snow is about 12% 
or " every 10 inches of snow that accumulates, it will melt to a pool of 
water 1.2 inches deep"

Rain ads to the density, but surprisingly, does not speed up snow melt
http://cdec.water.ca.gov/snow/misc/rainOnSnow.html

-Brick

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/fri/news/news_1n5snow.html

Sierra snowpack is 40 percent of normal

  By Audrey Cooper
  ASSOCIATED PRESS

  January 5, 2001

  SACRAMENTO -- The first winter measurement of the Sierra Nevada snowpack
  returned disappointing results yesterday: State water officials found 
snow levels at  40 percent of normal.

  Monthly mountain snowpack measurements by the state Water Resources Board
  help forecast California's water outlook for the summer. More than 40 
percent of   the state's drinking and irrigation water comes from the pack.

  A dry winter could mean a summer with little water for farmers, less 
power from   hydroelectric plants and a high risk of forest fires.

  The measurements are slightly above those from this time last year. 
Snowfall in   January and February helped raise the state to near-normal levels.
________________________
Read the rest at
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/uniontrib/fri/news/news_1n5snow.html

----------
> From: Ronald Moak <ronm@fallingwater.com>
> To: 'goforth@cio.net'; pct-l@mailman.backcountry.net
> Subject: RE: [pct-l] self arrests
> Date: Saturday, January 06, 2001 6:19 PM
> 
> I don't know, maybe I missed something last summer. But I didn't see any
> section of the PCT that would require expert knowledge of ice axe usage
to
> traverse. Granted there are a few tricky places, but even they are quite
> manageable if done in the afternoon when the snow has softened
> significantly. 
> 
> Yes small patchy snow can be dangerous. But knowing how to self arrest
> probably won't help you either. Knowing how to cut steps will. Or again
> waiting until the snow softens. 

Wow, I can hardly believe what I am reading.  If you have to cut steps to
get down a slope, and don't know how to self arrest, than what are you
going to do if you slip?  You can self arrest in places that you can cut
steps(better be damn fast about it tho).  You can self arrest on a slope
that requires crampons.  Otherwise, WHY CARRY AN ICE AX?

Over and over, you say just wait until the snow softens in the afternoon. 
Both accidents that I mentioned were in the afternoon.  The one where the
persons legs were completely abraded down the front(wear pants, although
nylon will really get you going fast) and whose shoulder was dislocated,
was about 30 degree firm, non icey snow over a trail interspersed by
patches of heather- the person has steps kicked into the slope by three
people in front of him.  The person failed to self arrest through 2 patches
of snow and 2 patches of heather(yes, you should use the ax to self arrest
in heather).  A slight amelioration of the slope before a cliffy area
stopped his momentum.

What about the circumstances in which there is no afternoon sun to soften
the snow (the John Lowder scenario).  Or where you reach the North side of
a pass just a little too late inthe afternoon.  The snow hardens in about
30 minutes.  I found that the north side of Forester and Glen Passes were
very dicey at this hour.  Mather is just as bad.  Do you believe that the
snow situation next year will be like the one you expereinced?  Do you
believe that the sun will always be shinning and the snow level well below
normal in the Sierras?
> 
> Joanne writes >> Second, when the time comes to do a self arrest, you do
not
> have time to
> think about it, it has to be an immediate automatic response.  In the
last
> two accidents that I have seen, both people had had training in self
> arrest, and neither one did it when the time came.<< 
> 
> Joanne by your logic, not only do you need the training, but you need a
fair
> degree of mountaineering experience also. In most of my experiences with
Ice
> Axes, if you're in a situation where an ice axe is critical to your
> survival, you ought to be wearing crampons or heavy soled boots. Except
for
> Monte, I'm not sure there are many people packing crampons through the
> Sierras. 
> 
> Those of us who prefer sneakers to boots would rather take a nap and let
the
> sun do its job.

Well again, you do not have to be on icey snow to need a ice ax to prevent
the tremendous gain in speed that happens on snow, even on fairly soft snow
if you are wearing nylon pants or a parka.

If you are carrying an ice ax, it is useless unless you know how to use it.
 And it is useless UNLESS YOU DO USE IT, when you have to.  Training only
helps to a degree.  When the time comes to USE an ice ax, you had better
have a do or die attitude, because that is what it takes.

Joanne

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Isenberg, Steve, BMCIO 
> Sent:	Monday, January 08, 2001 1:46 PM
> To:	Atkinson, David L, BMCIO
> Subject:	Sierra Stuff
> 
> The Resort Site:
> 
> http://www.mammothmountain.com/00winter/snowreport/hmain.html
> 
> 
> Self-Explanatory
> 
> http://www.mammothweather.com/
> 
> and
> 
> http://www.mammothweather.com/links.html

Gail,

I've just been researching this, though I have next to no hands-on
experience.  Sometimes it helps to hear a non-expert hash stuff out, so I'll
share my own conclusions, and let more experienced folks comment:

(1) I've decided not to worry about positive vs. negative pick clearance.  I
understand the argument for wanting a negative clearance on a general
purpose axe, but lots of people seem to have used both without any real
problems.  My own axe, bought before I had ever heard of positive vs.
negative clearance has a positive clearance tip.

(2)  There seem to be lots and lots of opinions on the best length for an
axe.  The only consistency seems to be that if you will be using hiking
poles, then get a short, very light, general mountaineering axe.  You do not
want an "ice tool"... they're used for climbing.  Some mountaineers use an
axe as a hiking stick... obviously it would have to be longer for that
purpose.  From listening to this list, I'd be willing to guess that not many
PCT trekkers go that route, though I might be tempted.

(3) You can get self arrest tops for hiking polls (Black Diamond), and you
can buy ice axes with telescoping poles (Advanced Base Camp).  That wouldn't
be my personal choice today, but I tend to be conservative when I don't know
what I'm doing.

(3) The lightest axes have aluminum or titanium heads.  Aluminum is softer
than steel or titanium, and apparently doesn't hold up all that well.  Axes
with aluminum heads are generally recommended only for "just in case" use...
which is probably what most PCT hikers need the axe for.  Titanium is rather
expensive.  There is one company offering a reasonably priced, very light,
axe with a titanium head and an aluminum shaft ($99), but I've never seen a
review, have never held one, and wouldn't know if it was any good even if I
had.  Their web page is ( http://sopgear.com/helios.htm ).  Maybe someone
with experience can take a look.

(4) I last looked at axes a few years ago and bought a Grivel Air Tech
Racing.  This is a relatively light, simple, axe with a steel alloy head and
an aluminum shaft.  I bought it as a general purpose axe that would work
well for treking.  The Grivel Pamir is also relatively light (and is less
expensive).  The only complaint people seem to have with the Pamir is that
its high-carbon steel head tends to rust a little.  The fix is to oil it,
which could be annoying on a long trek.

(5) There is no possible reason to carry both a trowel and an ice axe.

(6) Practicing with the axe you pick is more important than picking the axe
with the perfect pick (sorry!)

(7) I think that learning to use an ice axe in general is probably a good
idea.  If you are falling down a slope, you obviously need to have practiced
self-arrest.  However, ice axes can also be used to help keep you from
falling.  There are various techniques for walking across snow slopes (self
belay, moving from "point of balance" to "point of balance", etc.) that can
help keep you from falling in the first place.  So, to my way of thinking,
if I ever had to self-arrest, that would mean that I would have been in a
situation where knowing the other stuff would have been useful too.
According to "Mountaineering, Freedom of the Hills" self-arrest only works
about half the time anyway, so it should really be thought of as a backup,
not as a primary way to get around.  Better not to start sliding in the
first place.

(8) I've heard enough on this list, and from my reading, to believe that
paying attention to snow conditions is very important as well.  It seems
clear that a hiker is less likely to slip on soft snow, and that self arrest
is much easier on soft snow.  On the other hand, I also understand that deep
soft snow can be just awful to try to travel through (you posthole a lot and
get wet and cold).  It seems clear to me that there are different styles of
snow travel, and that if I was going to do the PCT any time soon (alas, I'm
not), I would pay attention to them... at least enough to know when the
style I picked was appropriate and safe.  I've also heard people discuss
that snow conditions, and appropriate travel techniques, vary from year to
year.

(9) The short answer is 42 :-)

-- Jim
 

OK, as requested I'll attempt to desribe walking with an ax. But it's
better to read "Mountaineering, The Freedom of the Hills".

Carry the ax on easy ground with the point forward. That way you know
where it is and hopefully won't poke a friend.

On steeper ground, hold it with the pick pointing backwards anduse it like
a short cane. The ax always goes on the uphill side. Learn to use it with
both hands.

On very steep terrain, when you move the ax is important. Let's take an
example of the uphill on your right side. With your downhill leg (left
leg) behind and uphill leg (right) in front, jam the axe hard into the
snow/ice. Now move the left leg, then right leg. The ax weill be behind
you slightly. But you are in the best stance with the lower leg straight
and the upper leg bent. Now withdraw the ax and plant it again in front of
you. Man this is hard to describe without pictures!

On super steep terrain face uphill, and plant the ax directly in front of
you with both hands. Then move your feet (up or down), jamming your tennie
shoes into the ice. Once the feet are stable, lift up the ax and replant
it for the next step.

You can also plunge step downhill, facing downhill. Bend your knees, plant
the ax firmly, then jam your tennie shoes heels into the ice (boots work a
lot better!!). Lift and move... go try it, hard to explain.

Other techniques that work well in steep dirt include palming the ax head
and pushing the pick into the dirt.

Has anyone been checking out Brian Robinsons progress?  He's moving along 
nicely.  Monday I was in Hot Springs and when I mentioned Brian to the 
outfitter he said no one has come in, but yesterday (Sunday) a hiker had come 
through carrying shoeshoes!  He started New Years Day from Springer.

<A HREF="http://homestead.juno.com/roy.robinson/Triple_Crown.html">
TripleCrown Year</A>

Another website you may want to check out is Pieps and Fiddleheads.  They'll 
be attempting a calendar year Triple Crown starting at Katahdin on Oct 25th 
and ending 365 days later on Mt. Whitney!  Unlike Brians attempt, Pieps and 
Fiddlehead's will have van support.  This would be their second Triple Crowns!

<A HREF="http://bpieps.safeshopper.com/">TripleCrown Year II</A> 

Both pretty cool hikes, if you ask me and happy I'm not doing them, although 
I will be assisting Fiddlehead when he passes through my neck of the woods a 
year from March.  

Sly

sfox@eskimo.com writes:

>  > I have a pair of walking crampons [Grivel -- 6 points, no front
>  > points. The bindings work with soft hiking shoes] What would that change?
>  
>That works great for trails. But on very steep slopes they tend to roll.
>You really need full crampons. 

An ice axe (wooden shaft for style, class and sophistication!) and in-step 
crampons worked fairly well in a light year, for me.  Entering the Sierra on 
May 1 in 1977, one of the lightest snow years on record, is probably similar 
to leaving Kennedy Meadows on June 1 in most relatively normal years 
(whatever that is!).  

Even going over a 15 foot vertical wall of ice at Forrester Pass was possible 
by cutting hand and foot holds in the ice (carefully), shifting the in-steps 
up to the front half of your boot to grab in the holes, and tying a rope to 
your pack to haul up after you make the climb so that its weight isn't trying 
to pull you off.  Yes, I would have liked full crampons at the time.  
However, carrying them all the way from Weldon (Kennedy Meadows didn't exist 
in 1977) wasn't exactly attractive for use on just that one situation.  Heavy 
duty boots enabled me to walk / stomp my way fairly securely on steep slopes, 
without the in-steps, in most situations.  

In other words, solid boots and in-steps with an ice axe are my suggestion if